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Talk:South Dakota
South In Season 9? Is South In Red Vs Blue Season 9? Just wow.... that may be. The worst question ever. Of all time. If you looked at her page, North's page, The Twins page or the Season 9 page you would know. Yes she is. Now please take you idiocy somewhere else.Sniperteam82308 I Wanna Pony 05:25, June 22, 2011 (UTC) Wow! South is like Tex thats amazing in a fact shes younger then not old and crotchety like in Reconstruction to say. - Alexander Philiph Sabatino That it does. Perhaps he will mess up somewhere and we can ban him.Sniperteam82308 I Wanna Pony 02:16, June 24, 2011 (UTC) Betraying? Well I was thinking, maybe South just ran away from Meta, which Delta just took that as she set North up; as I think she liked North to much to set him up; but she might have either, ran away when North had a plan or, she might have pushed him to get more speed. So I think South wouldn't have let North die on purpose, it was an accident. Toa manoc Well actually with an A.I. they will see your thoughts and memories as stated by Tex in Out of Mind Part 2. Thus Delta would know whether or not it was an accident or a betrayal.Sniperteam82308 I Wanna Pony 18:28, June 29, 2011 (UTC) Maybe North thought she betrayed him. 09:56, September 10, 2011 (UTC) We are talking about Delta think South betrayed North. And she did. As Delta is logic and can solve literally anything, such as the fact that Leonard L. Church is the Alpha, and the fact that an A.I. could see a Freelancer's thoughts, thus why Tex couldn't remove Omega herself, and why Wash didn't want to carry another A.I. as it would see his betraying thoughts about Freelancer.Sniperteam82308 I Wanna Pony 13:10, September 10, 2011 (UTC) So your saying the cold calculating AI fragment understands human emotions? The only pepole who could tell us If South really betrayed him is North himself,Agent Maine, and Theta. The Videx We stand together until the end- Woodrow Wilson 01:31, October 3, 2012 (UTC) No, we're saying the "cold calculating AI fragment" dug through South's brain like a mole on crack and found out what she fucking did. It's not an emotion, it was an ACTUAL EVENT that happened. Also, that's not how you sign your posts. Use four ~'s, not...whatever it is you're doing. Western Gen (talk) 01:57, October 3, 2012 (UTC) Motion Tracker In Season 9 Episode 3 North keeps telling South to set her motion tracker before proceeding into the base to retrieve the data. Wasn't Motion Tracking North's armor ability, and he needed Theta to make it work? And they intentionaly didn't give South an AI but did give one to North (as a part of some cruel experiment), right? I thought I remembered South and Wash talking about that at one point. So....did she have a working ability after all? Staxeon 00:27, July 4, 2011 (UTC) Motion Tracker is standard for at least every Freelancer. Tex mentioned something about it once I believe while on the quest.Sniperteam82308 I Wanna Pony 02:21, July 4, 2011 (UTC) Sarge also said that it's standard issue while in the caves und blood gulch. 18:12, August 16, 2011 (UTC) It is an Armor Enhancement! And North has Enhanced Motion Tracker and Domed Energy Shield, and no they did not need an AI to use it! The only Armor Enhancements that seem to need an AI are the: Cloaking, Temporal Distortion, Super Strength, Speed Unit, and Overshield. P.S The Freelancer part of Season 9 takes place during the time when the AI were first getting created. 09:55, September 10, 2011 (UTC) Yea. No duh it takes place while the A.I. are being created. And can North really have two armor enhancements? I know Maine did but that was after killing at least 3 Freelancers, as well as taking cloaking from Tex's "dead" body and temporal distortion from Wyoming's helmet. Motion tracker is standard for anyone proven by both Tex, showing its for every Freelancer, and by Sarge by showing its for the simulation troopers as well. You don't know if all Armor Enhancements need A.I. or if only some.Sniperteam82308 I Wanna Pony 13:15, September 10, 2011 (UTC) North and South's armor colors Hi, I have something that I would like to point out. I've gone through some of the pictures on North and South's appearances in Season 9 and throughout that season, South's armor color was Magenta while North's was solid purple. However, I just rewatched Recovery One (completely by coincidence, whether you believe it or not) and, in Recovery One, South's armor was purple while North's was Magenta. Clearly, the two switched Armor colors between Recovery One and Season 9. Keep in mind that South retained the solid purple armor through Reconstruction right up until her death. Is that bit of information noteworthy enough to put in the trivia or something? I mean, (this is going to sound ridiculous but I think it fits) on other wikis, the trivia section is for noteworthy information that can't be put anywhere else in the article (not for speculation as some would think). I just wanted to bring this up before doing anything about it since I don't want to put it in the article only to have it reverted, since I hate it when that happens. So, to whoever responds first, thank you for your response, whatever it may be.Pwndulquiorra 04:00, November 29, 2011 (UTC) I wouldnt say Souths armor color was "magenta", more like a lightish purple/orchid. But I absolutely agree with you about the Recovery One thing, because I've noticed it b4. South's armor was darker than North's, but in Reconstruction her armor was magenta/orchid/lightish purple --Oo7nightfire 04:17, November 29, 2011 (UTC) Well, the point of my explanation was to point out the inconsistency in armor color for both North and South between Recovery One and Season 9. So, can I put it in the trivia without it getting reverted? That's the thing I want to be clear on.Pwndulquiorra 04:27, November 29, 2011 (UTC) I dont see y not. Oo7nightfire 04:28, November 29, 2011 (UTC) Great, awesome, thank you!Pwndulquiorra 04:29, November 29, 2011 (UTC) Anyone know what is the color of South's eyes? And that of her brother? Alpha out. South was Orchid in Reconstruction... —file:Jman98's Sig Image.gif[[User Talk:Jman98|''Purple]] [[User:Jman98|Gecko]] 10:39, June 19, 2012 (UTC) Are you talking about her appearance at High Ground? Because that's the sunlight reflecting off of her armor. Take a closer look and you'll see that it's clearly purple. I'm even making a comparison right now and her armor color in both Recovery One and Reconstruction is Purple. In this picture, it is clearly purple. Compare this picture to the color orchid and you'll see that they're clearly not the same color.Interesting but not noteworthy 10:51, June 19, 2012 (UTC) By the power of search engines and poor-ass image editing I have made a picture comparing the colors in question. Western Gen 18:16, June 19, 2012 (UTC) Thank you for posting that Western Gen. As you can see, it's Orchid. Not purple. —file:Jman98's Sig Image.gif[[User Talk:Jman98|Purple]] [[User:Jman98|Gecko]] 19:00, June 19, 2012 (UTC) South's personality in battle Having looked through Season 9 several times, and seeing the skirmish at the Oil Platform (forget it's actual name), I've noticed that South seems to have a sadistic way of fighting, particularly at 3:49. I'll list: *Shot a soldier in the knee, when she could have easily gotten a headshot. *Kicked another soldier in the knee, crushing the kneecap. *Crushed a third soldier's head against a locker. There could be more, but that's as much as I could see. It just seems to me that South seems to fight to hurt soldiers in the most painful way possible, rather than eliminate them. Now, I will agree with others that she was just doing her job, but she did seem to prolong the Insurrectionists' pain before actually killing them at that stage. Galvascream 02:35, April 9, 2012 (UTC) Yeah just add a sub section under her personality (I think there is one) and put those there King692 04:00, April 9, 2012 (UTC) New Pic I think if someone has a high quality of this pic they should use it as the new info box picture JB nine90 09:42, June 8, 2012 (UTC) I used one that looked exactly like that for the infobox pic. The current is high quality enough, & has more of a close up. --Oo7nightfire 10:52, June 8, 2012 (UTC) Here's the one I'm talking about, which was actually taken by WhellerNG, an ex-admin. Oo7nightfire 10:55, June 8, 2012 (UTC) What about one of these two they're close up JB nine90 12:11, June 8, 2012 (UTC) The left one is more of a close up, but like I said b4, the current pic is fine. Oo7nightfire 12:20, June 8, 2012 (UTC) OK JB nine90 12:24, June 8, 2012 (UTC) Did South put Nortn in a position to be killed or did the Counselor use North as bait? I'm gonna make a topic for this, just to save folks from the insanity of constant article changing. For those not in the know: It is revealed in the book that the Counselor used agents as bait to lure out the Meta. While I accept the point this likely included South and Wash as well, meaning South could have still put her brother in a position to be killed, let's just consider some points. *The Meta only went after people with AI and killed them if they had an AI unless the AI escaped (as in Gamma's first case) or willingly went with him (as in Delta's case). The Meta only went out of his way to destroy others if they involved themselves (Wash and the BGC), got in the way (Command Soldiers) or if there seemed to be something better on offer (South's persuasion, BGC and Wash tricking him at Command in order to escape with Epsilon). This is important, because North still had Theta. The Meta had every reason to go after him. He spares South at this point because she doesn't have an AI to give him, and likely would have spared her again had she been successful in leaving Delta behind. Wash even states he didn't feel like he was being tracked by the Meta until he got Delta. Which brings me to my next point: *The Counselor knew very much what Maine and Sigma were after. And I'm not even talking in Recreation, either. AI theory class, anyone? And even more recently in his conversation with Locus on the Meta in Season 13? Of course he knew what he was after. And we know he's not above manipulation to get what he wants. He lets Wash recover Delta, knowing that the Meta will come after him eventually. He keeps South with North, knowing the Meta will come after Theta and maybe she can stop him or at least get footage of him so the Counselor can formulate a better plan of stopping the Meta. Wash even expresses surprise when Command knew North still had Theta, which seems like information he needed to know, but wasn't told. If Command knew, then the Counselor would have surely known, but he didn't want his plan to be compromised. Keep people in the dark, subtly nudge them and manipulate them, and get what he wants: the Meta stopped, and all assets recovered. Of course, that didn't pan out, because South shot Wash in the back, an act that even the Counselor says he takes responsability for. Why would he say that if he didn't have a hand in it somehow? *Delta is a lying little sod. We know this. We've seen this. He played jokes on Wash that were little lies (eating food in your helmet makes eating more efficient), lying to Command about South's death and lying to York about what the Director was doing at the start of Season 10. He also assumes South lost her Domed Energy Shield before she could even explain why she couldn't use it when Wash asks her, even though she is clearly seen with it in Reconstruction. You could argue that he used logical deduction to work out that South betrayed North, but let's just consider South and Delta's track record for a moment. She consistently compares AIs to more mundane equipment, like vaccum cleaners, coffee makers and even calls Delta a lightbulb at one point. She sees them as nothing but tools. Delta had every reason to dislike South. Shooting Wash in the back only gives him more reason to hate her. It also gives him a great excuse to motivate Wash into killing her, ''especially when she tries to abandon him. She's done it twice now, why not make up a third time just to cement it even more? Plus, the whole conversation where Wash tells Delta Command sends their condolences at South's death was subtly sarcastic, even for two characters like Wash and Delta. There is one more point to consider: *What if South knew of the baiting plan to some extent? Now, we know South was going to be rated for an AI if she did something for Command, of which that something appears to have been achieved by the end of Recovery One, though it is never clearly specified what. I'm thinking, with this book info, it was to draw out the Meta. She would be paired with North to give her a better chance of encountering the Meta. What if Delta mistook this set up as South setting up her brother, even though it was the Counselor who set it all up? And of course, he would be careful not to implicate himself because, as we have seen, he tries to be as careful as possible with his manipulation. Of course, when Wash comes along with Delta, it is perfect. She can shadow someone with an AI again to get even more info on the Meta without blowing her cover and revealing the Counselor's plan, because he knew Wash wouldn't kill her and turn down any possible help to stop the Meta, even if asked to kill said help. Also Wash didn't even know South was a Recovery Agent as well, if you recall. Again, information he should have likely been told, but wasn't. Than plan was perfect. But then Wash gave South what she wanted all along: an AI. All she had to do now was send Command the logs she had got of the Meta, make sure Wash was dealt with and get away. So she shoots him in the back, persuades the Meta to go after him, and says that the Meta killed Wash (which, in her eyes, was probably going to be true soon enough). She goes on to remark that she wasn't worried about Command coming after her, implying she was more worried about the Meta coming after her. She knew the game had changed now she had Delta. You could argue she got that information from Wash when he said the Meta started following him now he had Delta, or maybe it was the case she knew all along. Which means that if she did, she had to have known part of the Couselor's plan to bait agents, which means she is still not entirely responsible for North's death, or maybe even not at all, depending on what she knew. *Finally, why put it in the book at all? Inference from the show and book aside, why even include that in the book at all? If South really did put her brother in a position to be killed, then why not either just leave it at Delta's say so, or directly say so on North and South's page? It is no secret that this has been up in the arms within the fandom for a while. It is quite similar to "Did Tex attack Wyoming for his AI or not?", another thing not explicitly said in the show. This question is also answered by the book on Wyoming's page: it was actually Maine that attacked him, looking for Gamma. I think this is also answering this ambiguity: the Counselor used agents as bait to lure out the Meta which, yes, probably did include Wash and South. I mean, look at how much Wash wasn't told and how Command promised South an AI at the end of it all. But, North had an AI, a fact the Counselor would have known and he also knew that the Meta was specifically after AI. So yeah, somehow or another, he used North as bait. That isn't debateable. What could be is how much South knew, because she wanted an AI so much that Command could have easily said "If you set up your brother, we'll give you one" and the hate for her brother was already there. However, considering how little Wash was informed about things and the fact South actually genuinely sounded upset by her brother's death, I would say she, too, knew very little, if anything. In short: Counselor most definitely did use North as bait, as well as South and Wash. At worst, South has dimished responsabilty, if she knew part of the Counselor's plan. At best, it was all a set up by the Counselor to get info on the Meta and work out how to stop him. Considering all my points as a whole, I'm going for the latter. Because, as I say at the start of this last point, why include it in the book at all? TL; DR - Counselor definitely used North as bait and his actions resulted in his death. South's level of responsabilty in all this (ie. did she help in this plan or not) could be considered debateable. I lay my case before you. CaliforniaFoxtrotThirteen (talk) 05:33, November 27, 2015 (UTC) Sorry for replying so late. You make some really good points. I agree that the Counselor knew what Meta was after, which explains why he would send Wash out to recover Delta and place him in danger. Basically your explanation in "The Counselor knew very much what Maine and Sigma were after." I agree with. However, I don't agree with the Delta lying portion. Yes Delta has lied in the past, but are you specifically saying that he lied when he said "And as I have learned, in our travels, her brother North suffered a similar fate." in Reconstruction? I don't think he did, becaue South didn't deny it. South would've been up in arms if Delta lied right in her face to Wash like that, but she didn't, indicating that she was, at the very least, partially responsible for placing her brother in danger / betraying North to save herself. In addition, South didn't defend herself when Wash aimed his pistol at her. Rather, her last words were somewhat mocking Wash, thinking that he didn't have the balls to kill her. This solidifies that she did indeed betray North (two opportunities to deny it and she didn't it). Delta then corrects Church later on when he incorrectly says South killed her brother, in which Delta replies "She put him in a position to be killed.", as a form of clarification. The reason Delta suggested they kill South was because Wash was willing to bring her along on their hunt for the Meta (not because he lied), and Delta, based on his relationship with South in addition to logical thinking, knew that was a bad idea & didn't want it. Felix is a lying little sod, Delta lies from time to time, but isn't a known liar. As for South being involved in the Counselor's plan, if South knew about the baiting plan all along then she is partially responsible for North's death, especially since she didn't deny Delta accusing her of betraying North. However, we don't know what instructions the Counselor gave to the twins that placed them in a position where the Meta could attack them. Did the Counselor ask them to hunt the Meta? Did he send them on a fool's errand so the Meta could attack them while they were out in open? Did North defect from Project Freelancer after the break-in or not? If so, how could the Counselor use him as bait if he wasn't around? When Counselor told Wash that he takes some responsibility for South betraying him, I always thought they implied Wash alone was being used as bait to get to the Meta and South was in on it. While it's implied that the Counselor and Command put North in a position to be killed since they knew he had Theta, it's unclear how they did it, so it's a stretch to say that the Counselor was fully responsible when South was in it too, to some extent. The Counselor set up the plan, South executed it. If South knew about the plan and the Counselor baiting his agents to get to the Meta, then she knew the Counselor was using North as bait since he had an AI. She allowed North to die. She betrayed his trust for her own personal gain: to be rated for an AI. After North died South did her part. She got information on the Meta for Command to devise a strategy to fight it. However, she didn't send her logs until after she betrayed Wash. Reason being, she had an AI of her own now, so like you said, the game changed. She didn't need to be rated, she had everything. I also don't think this is similar to the question on whether Tex attacked Wyoming at all. I feel it was clear in S10. We know Tex wouldn't do that. Why would she? She disliked using Omega and frequently pulled him. Her goal later on in the BGC was to get rid of Omega for good. We know she has no reasons to obtain AI. It was obvious that the Director and Counselor lied about this to give all of their agents incentive to capture her, since Tex was a loner and didn't really make friends with the other Freelancers. Plus, Carolina and South had the most animosity towards Tex so of course they'd believe that lie. Maine attacking Wyoming was probably included to clarify what exactly happened to Wyoming. We knew it wasn't Tex; she wouldn't do that. So what really happened? The Counselor using his own agents as bait didn't really clarify things like the Wyoming thing, which was flat out direct, it simple implied things. While South did show sadness towards her brother's death it admittedly didn't last very long. As you said, the hate towards him was there. He was listed as a better Freelancer on the leaderboard, he got to go on an important mission and she wasn't able to, he got an AI and she didn't. South barely got any attention or respect, and she wanted to be treated as one of the best. She lived in the shadow of her brother. After North replaced her spot on the leaderboard, she completely flipped out, showing how competitive she was and how she put that over the people she cared about. Her speech towards North even hints at her reason to betray him. Chronologically, the last time the twins are seen before Recovery One is them fighting each other, both on opposite sides. Things didn't end on good terms between the two. There are many things laid out that help us understand why South would betray her brother. If Counselor set up North to be killed South went through with the plan. She's just as responsible for his death. TL;DR - If South wasn't responsible for North's death she would've defended herself after Delta accused her of it to some extent, but she didn't. Because the Counselor (and Command) knew North possessed Theta implies that they placed him in a position to be killed. How they did that is unclear. I see this as "According to the RvB book, the Counselor is implied to have some involvment in North's death. Due to the fact that he and Recovery Command knew that North still possessed Theta, it could be assumed that he placed North in a position where the Meta could attack him, in order to learn more about the enemy and devise a plan to combat it." - Not saying this is what we should put, this is still up to debate of course. Just saying at this point these are my thoughts. Oo7nightfire (talk) 04:29, November 28, 2015 (UTC) I think that's probably the best we're going to get without people outright disagreeing with either your points or mine. I think we should go with something like that. CaliforniaFoxtrotThirteen (talk) 11:48, November 29, 2015 (UTC) I agree. Oo7nightfire (talk) 01:35, November 30, 2015 (UTC)